Showing posts with label consensual pvp. Show all posts
Showing posts with label consensual pvp. Show all posts

Tuesday, January 17, 2012

BB32: Life's not consensual.

This month's Blog Banter comes from Drackarn of Sand, Cider and Spaceships. He has foolishly chosen to poke the hornet's nest that is the non-consensual PvP debate. Whilst you read his question, I'll be finding a safe place to hide.

"A quick view of the Eve Online forums can always find someone complaining about being suicide ganked, whining about some scam they fell for or other such tears. With the Goons' Ice Interdiction claiming a vast amount of mining ships, there were calls for an "opt out of PvP" option.

Should this happen? Should people be able to opt-out of PvP in Eve Online. Should CONCORD prevent crime rather than just handing out justice after the event? Or do the hi-sec population already have too much protection from the scum and villainy that inhabits the game?"


Like I post in my title, life is not consensual. PvP shouldn't be either. Above all, this is a game, if you aren't having fun then go play something else. If Eve loses a few players because it is too brutal, too hard for those players, too difficult for them to stay alive, I say let them go.

I know that business sense says that you should expose your product to the largest audience possible, so that might mean that CCP offer some option to allow those really risk adverse players an option to play Eve without risk.

How wrong that would be, how many ways that system could be gamed, taken advantage of. All hauler accounts would be combat opted out, miners would be too, industrialists. It would remove more than half the targets from high sec, ruin corp warfare.

Alternatively, when would CONCORD deploy to be proactive, could you no longer even target another ship, guess that rules out RR, to name one thing. Would they arrive a second or two after aggression (don't they already)?

Eve's supposed to be a cold, dark, ugly place. No part of eve is forgiving, not Highsec, not Null and certainly not Lowsec. If eve as a whole analogous to any location, it would be down a dark, cold, wet alley. Highsec is closer to the light of the street, the wetness on the ground is less pronounced but the cold is still all around you. 1.0 is the closest to the street, but still back from the light. Lowsec is further down the alley, where the light just barely reaches, that place where dark things lurk, begging for your wallet. Null sec is like the path off the alley, the small narrow pathway that leads to a dead end, one way in, one way out, it just takes one Thug slipping in behind you to make it even more unforgiving.

From the second you step down that Alley you know it's not safe, it's the place your mom frowned at when you were a kid, that place that just never feels right, never feels safe. Not even the thugs who live in that dark place think of it as safe, think of it as home. They know how dangerous it is, they are prepared. The first time you follow Eve down that alleyway, you aren't prepared.

I won't say that high sec has too much protection, but they certainly have enough. There are so many mechanics that can be used to stay safe. You get a 24 hour notice before war targets get to shoot at you, docking mechanics, given you can survive that long, jump mechanics. The more you look at it, the more you realize that outside of suicide ganking, something that can be avoided by scouting your route, or just not AFK piloting (in most cases), there isn't a whole lot in Highsec to worry about.

It's like the pilots who want the ability to opt out of combat just don't want to learn the game. They expect to walk down that alley and not have to learn to protect themselves. They don't want to take the time to learn the ways to protect themselves. They don't spend the time to learn about avoiding combat, can agression, and how to avoid being shot at in missions. They just want to hide in their little bubble and get away with what they think Eve is all about.

Well here's some news, Eve's not that game, Eve's the game that seduces you down its dark alley, and comes out with your blood on her hands and your money in her pocket.

It's the universal risk that keeps me coming. Eventually you might emerge from that alley, a little blood on your hands, a little money in your pocket. Decrease that risk, let people avoid it and Eve begins to lose that charm. Begins to lose that danger, lose that intrigue, lose me.

Tuesday, February 23, 2010

Non-Consensual PvP thoughts

Read this, then come back to here:
http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2010/02/why-non-consentual-pvp-will-remain_23.html

I find this is a very common line of thought by players who seem to come from other games and look outwardly at eve, and non-consensual pvp as a whole.  I have had some experience in both WoW, Warhammer in realms that were both open pvp or RvR, so pvp all the time to the PvE groups that were only if flagged could you pvp or pvp in instances.

I think that the main cross seen in many games is the comparison between Consentual, risk free pvp, to non-consentual, asset loss pvp.

Here we have the ends of what I call the extreme.  PvP in WoW is mostly (on non PVP servers) on a consensual basis, barring noob mistakes.  The other end of what I call the common gaming line is Eve Online.

In Eve when one engages in PvP there is the obvious fight as well as the chance at asset loss, meaning your ship, money if ransomed, etc, where in WoW you just lose the time it takes to run back to the fight.

The line connecting them represents the path that most games take between the extremes.  FPS are closer to Eve on the scale of non-consensual, where they also have almost no loss of assets.  Warhammer had repair costs associated with dying in PvP to another player so that puts it lower on the loss of assets list where WoW you don't take item damage from PvP, or at least not as a result of dying.

Another blogger, SERIAL GANKER posted on the subject as well, providing another image akin to mine.  His was a chart of types of pvp however, it is still good material.

Honestly, nobody really enjoys losing, but for some, most of us Eve players for example; pirates and PvPers tend to like the rush associated with the fight, and not with the gank.  Most ganks in Eve are carried out either for monetary gain, griefing, or in the hopes of a "good fight."  Or at least some kind of response from the target.  PvP in a consensual/non-consensual basis is way more than just simple gank vs fair fight.

Even in WoW you will never find a fair fight, classes are designed to be good against one class and bad against another, say a Hunter vs a Paladin, or a Hunter vs a clothie, button pushing skills, as well as timing and knowing your characters weaknesses as well as skill-set can spell the difference between winning or losing, as can gear, level, lag and experience in PvP. 

The same factors are true for Eve.  Skill in a ship, fitting of the ship, allies, location, knowing the role of your ship, how to fly it, what to look for, be on the lookout for, as well as how to fight in your ship will provide the difference between winning or losing.  Sure there will be unfair fights, but that is common amongst all types of PvP, and claiming that is a hallmark of JUST non-consensual PvP is a huge misnomer.

For example, Even in a FPS there are unfair fights all the time, such as turning a corner and getting sniped, grenaded, or ambushed by 4 people around the corner.  Or on a more global basis, when you join a side and they are currently outnumbered by the other side by virtue of server admin, skill or just random server placement.  Truth is there are still fights of 20 vs 10 in a FPS or even in WoW!  Thanks to instanced combat, there are common fights of 8 on 3 or 40 on 20 in AV or Warsong Gulch, or even the one in the middle of Northrend who's name escapes me right now.

PvP isn't best when it is fair, PvP is best when you are matching wits against an enemy focused on your destruction.  Sure non-consensual PvP is different than consensual PvP.  The ever present threat of being attacked simulates the environment suggested by a cruel and uncaring world or universe.  That mirrors the one we live in as well as the one presented in Eve.  The key is providing such an environment while still providing some type of protection or retribution means for the ganked.  No matter how small the chance.  Eve is successful because they have balanced that well, with high, low and null sec, Concord, Wardecs, Wars and space holding.  Many other Non-Consensual games failed because they did not properly address this balance and left no recourse for the ganked to gain any revenge or even the chance of revenge.

I think there will be more games like Eve, where non-consensual PvP is the norm and not the exception.  Or at least there should be!