Friday, January 7, 2011

Re: The Downward Spiral of Low Sec

I didn't want to post a big long response in reply to THIS.  So I tried just writing a few words in response, but once I got started I just couldn't stop.  So like Jager Da, I'm going to post it here instead.

Sadly the post is opinion and not fact based.  While it makes some quality points, perception being one of them, your underlying arguments are flawed and based only on the opinions/perceptions of the people you have read and the opinions you have formed because of that "research."

The pirate take of freedom is nothing but an illusion that continues to choke the life from Low Sec to this very day. They want freedom but no consequences for their actions. They want targets to shoot yet they offer nothing in return. 

In fact, most pirates offer services and opportunities for the enterprising entrepreneur. You just need to know where to look, who to talk to, who is trustworthy, and of course accept a margin of acceptable and profitable loss. I know of more than one industrialist that make incredible profits by supporting and supplying small to mid sized pirate corps with ships, and logistics that would otherwise be unavailable barring the use of alts. Black Frog is one good example and well known.

The thing that really makes me chuckle about your fact-based argument is when you take the time to call pirates, assholes,

The only place they can be an asshole and get flashy red in the process.

That sets the tone, the perception, if you will, of your entire argument. You perceive pirates as assholes so that is the idea that pushes the rest of your post.  Pirates just play the game differently than say a carebear.  Does that make them any more of an asshole than a bear?  or than any other player in the game?  no.

You, like the angry carebear who has just been killed in lowsec, are spreading the perception that lowsec is dangerous and impassible. I can't even recall the last time when I was carefully moving through lowsec that I died to a gatecamp, or a smartbombing BS.  It's only when I don't pay attention or just warp to 0 that I die in stupid ways, and even that hasn't happened in quite a while, despite my flailing attempts!

In my opinion you are falsely accusing lowsec of being higher risk than nullsec. To the unwary, who think of it as just a step down in risk from highsec, of course it is risky, you are going from a PvP with "flags" (wars, can flags, ninja's etc) area to one where you can be attacked at any time.  The same caution used in nullsec should also be used in low and last I looked IS BEING USED IN LOWSEC by those people who live there.

Maybe your argument would be more convincing if your said in the short term lowsec is more dangerous given the following,

1. you aren't using a scout or due diligence when transporting valuable goods through lawless lands
2. you don't do any research on how to survive or thrive in the lowsec area you are just about to try to live in.
3. you expect lowsec to be as safe as highsec around stations and gates.
4. you don't expect every T;D;H coming along to be actively trying to kill you.
5. you don't make contact with the pirates in that area to try to create an understanding or even scout them to see what their movement patterns are/engagements/foes/friends etc.

It would be like living in w-space, but never even opening your dscanner while you ran a site in a class 1 or 2 wormhole.  You are ASKING to be taken unaware and killed.  It's even worse than that, because you still have full local functionality.  There is approximately no reason for a smart mission runner or semi smart belt ratter to ever be caught in lowsec.  Just like in nullsec.

So why do you say lowsec is more dangerous than nullsec?  Is it because you are actively hunted in far greater number than in null, not really the truth given the numbers of roaming gangs we see in our corner of null.  Perhaps it's because there is a lack of an alliance or coalition wide intel channel letting you know 5 jumps before hostiles are on top of you, not that it's not just as possible to put a system like that in place on your own + friends in lowsec.  Even with that channel people still die.  Let's look at how lowsec is safer than nullsec.

In Lowsec there are always safe stations to retreat to, you can store your goods inside and there is nothing the pirates can do to get into them and take them from you or at the very least deprive you of access to those items.  Jump clones means you can leave your stuff there, completely safe and go off and do something else if the pirates in your area are determined to camp you in place.  Nullsec on the other hand see's changes of owners of station systems on a fairly regular basis. One could lose a fleet of ships there or if they manage a POS and their POS is put under siege they could lose just as much in CSAA's and corp hangars out there Not to mention moon-goo profits.

If you enter null with the same failures/assumptions of invincibility, you are going to die. Likely in the first null system you jump into because of the 24/7 camp that happens to sit there and the fact that you are just as fresh meat to them as you would be to pirates in lowsec.

Is lowsec dangerous? yes.  Isn't part of that question also supposed to be, is lowsec supposed to be dangerous?

Is lowsec broken? Perhaps to some it is. Could it do with some looking at, of course it could but then so could almost every aspect of every game created.  I might not say that everything is functioning "perfectly."  But neither is lowsec in a downward spiral.  Lowsec is still currently very similar to how it was when I first started playing.  a little worse in some area's and a little better in others.  But overall...

Lowsec survival links for those too lazy to go find them.

Eve wiki
Forum link by Kessiaan
Prowler lowsec fit


  1. Well said. Very well said, in fact, it's bloody brilliant and you sum it up exactly when you say . . .

    Is lowsec dangerous? yes. Isn't part of that question also supposed to be, is lowsec supposed to be dangerous?

    MB. (asshole)

  2. Your comment was on point as well! Couldn't agree more, especially

    "you make it attractive to all and sundry and you'll do one thing - It will increase blob warfare as everybody will be there after a bite of the pie."

    No thank you!

  3. Great post, man. You touched on a few things I wish I had said.

  4. 100% endorse this post :) Excellent points, well made and supported. You know, most pirates are in it for the profit. Some few love to grief, but most are just trying to make their ISK in a way different than others do it. Almost without exception, every pirate I know is pretty cool and fun to fly with, pro in the way they approach their play style, and has a good perspective on what EVE is really about.

  5. Thanks for reading. I appreciate your post and your points. You missed the point of the original article a bit though, as the majority of points you made are great but not at all what I was talking about. However, it is a good take. Only by talking through it will we all have a better understanding!

  6. As a carebear these days I support this post. I fly through lowsec every other day hauling millions of stuff about. I trade with the lowsec folks and we all have a better day. Have I seen gategamps, um yes. Have they tried to kill me, um yes. Do I expect that some day they might pull it of, um yes.

    Bottom line is don't go into harms way if your not willing to put the effort into knowing the dangers and avoiding them. With the right mindset lowsec is a fun and exciting place filled with some super nice people. Sure they will pop your ship and ransom your pod, but well that is how they play. talk to them some time, you might just find they are less of an asshole than that grumpy mission runner who yells at anyone who fits a bad tank on a level 4.



  7. Well this is all great news! I thought the ongoing decline of Low Security space's population might be a cause for concern.

    Glad to hear that's not the case.

  8. Truth is that butt-heads exist in all corners of the Eve universe, but luckily they are the exception and not the rule. The Pirates I know, while still scum sucking, also happen to be very nice people really. And while I don't live the Pirate life all the time, I do sometimes like to roam into low for something different.

    The truth is Eve is what you make of it. Choose to make it hard, boring, lonely and harsh if you want and it will be. But choose to make friends, have fun and enjoy yourself and it can be the greatest thing since a pocket on a shirt.

    As always, be careful what you ask to be fixed, because someday they just might do it.

  9. Lo-sec? highsec? nullsec? W-space?
    Is losec broken? yes i think it is. there's systems out there that have enough stations (research and production grunt) to qualify as a major tradehub in highsec. take elibinger (not sure if i spelled it right, it's the main system in the molden hearth), it's got double digit number of stations and yet the local averages out at about 7.
    No not all pirates are assholes. when i was a noob and trying my hand at lo-sec ratting i got busted by a pirate who then pointed out what was wrong with my fit in a detailed mail. but some of them are. there's absolutely no doubt about that.
    lo-sec dosn't need changes. highsec residents need changes in their perception about it. Incursions may change it. pirates fly solo or in small gangs generally so a single assault incursion fleet will present something very hard to gank because you won't get enough pirates from other corps to work together to take it down.
    lo-sec might see a new life. or it might just stay the same. who knows?