Early Tier 3 BC status

Now with slot layouts added, speeds and agility numbers, and sig radius.

First leaked by Reddit, apparently from scraping against sisi's DB,

Reddit leaked tier 3 bcs stats

More extensive raw data from Sisi, currently compiling BC stats from it.

http://pastebin.com/TkY3rY6q

I'll copy the important bits into here aka everything that isn't a comment, (from reddit)

Oracle
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed and 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Energy Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Energy Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets

Naga
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Torpedo Velocity, 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity, 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range and 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets 40% reduction in the powergrid need of Siege Missile Launchers 58% reduction in the CPU need of Siege Missile Launchers

Talos
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets

Tornado
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Rate of Fire and 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Projectile Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Projectile Turrets

Let's look at generalizations that can be taken from these numbers.


CCP has wisely decided to use a "role bonus" instead of just providing the masses of PG/CPU needed to fit BS sized weapons. This will prevent the majority of attempts to uber tank these ships and use them for something other than their intended use, or even the idea of 100mn BC's running around. Now usually these role bonus effects get modified by a pilot's ship skill level, so the question remains if someone with BC V will get more out of the "95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Projectile Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Projectile Turrets" bonus.

And now a bit more specifics;

I still hate you Sun.

First up we have the Oracle, the already promising looking Amarr "true" BC. A tracking and optimal range bonus almost screams for use of Mega Pulse/Scorch and some kind of kiting setup, using that extra BC "speed" while your extra tracking on the already HAX tracking of lasers keeping everything hostile around you, dead. As with all these new BC's I am not sure exactly how this will fit into a gang, other than just bringing more BS sized guns to a BC/cruiser fight. In a large way this might be the Amarr answer to the nano Tempest.

Now obviously the energy reduction for these guns is needed given the hull size of BC, but is strangely absent in favor of MOAR RANGE with the optimal bonus. This is going to be interesting because the question stands if the Oracle will need to be injected just to fire it's main guns for any period of time? I guess only time will tell!

Prelim other stats
8 high slots with 8 turret slots (looks like I was wrong about the whole no 8 guns thing!)
3 mid slots
6 low slots
3 rigs (medium rigs)
17 total slots (h+m+l)
180m sig radius, no drones. Agility is a respectable 0.57, top speed of 200 m/s

So with this extra data it looks like I was mostly right, this is the second slowest of the new line of BC's but it is also the second most agile. No Drones, and 8 turrets means a built in vulnerability to light and fast ships (yay!).

Next up we have the Caldari Naga. A lot of people were expecting a cruise missile ship here but instead these early stats show another Caldari Torp boat. BUT WAIT! It actually has !TWO! sets of bonuses. Not only do these stats show a pair of torp bonuses but also a pair of hybrid bonuses. Could it be it will have both?
...
....
.....
No, or at least very unlikely. Minmatar being the kings of split weapons and all that, but in addition to that thought, I think the dev's are still trying to figure out if torps or hybrids are the better way to go for this boat. For testing on sisi/their dev servers they have included both sets of bonuses to make a final call while balancing.

-Hybrid-Naga-san

With a bonus to both optimal range and tracking speed (both useful for rails and blasters) this would be the little brother (or sister) to the Rohk, and effective both at range and up close, a good step to seeing the Caldari a bit more diversified from the usual missile approach. I would rather see this in-game as a strong ship rather than yet another torp/missile boat introduced to the Caldari line, although I suppose the Ferox already fills the role (poorly) as the Caldari gunboat BC.

-Torp-Naga-chan

So its not a cruise missile naga? I'm surprised, this is a interesting departure from the norm, and could be seen as something of an influence from the Khanid line with a pair of strong bonuses towards the short range missile system instead of the usual long range bias placed on Caldari missile ships. Or if not bias than weapon system range ambivalence. The torp speed bonus gives a range increase to torps but the real important bonus is the second one, a bonus to explosion velocity to torps is huge! It means this ship could actually engage ships other than BS's with it's torps and be able to hit for at least decent damage, similar to a large stealth bomber, though less sneaky! Torps vs other BC, especially bonused like this, makes a whole lot of sense and seems to go hand-in-hand with the class's apparent idea to get tracking bonuses to large guns, enabling them to down-engage a "bit."

8 high slots and 8 missile launcher slots
6 mid slots
4 low slots
3 rigs (medium rigs)
18 total slots (h+m+l)
190m sig radius, no drones. Agility is the highest at 0.58 with the lowest top speed of 195 m/s.

So where do I start here, what did the Caldari guy miss the memo that the max number of slots for these things is 17 (all the others have 17) and toss in an extra slot for fun?! What the hell is up with that. Anyways, I have not posted some of these numbers, but the shield/armor/hull numbers for these ships are LOW, like lower than some cruisers. Very glass-cannon. And this was across the board.

You giant Bronze bastard!

Wow, the Talos. So clearly this ship is going to highlight the hybrid changes, but I have to say that I am a little disappointed that this isn't a drone boat. Okay, don't laugh at me too hard. It would be sweet to have a new BC able to field 5 or even more heavy drones. A-la the Myrm pre-nerf. Hopes aside, indications show that webs will be a part of the changes to fix hybrids and more specifically blasters. With 90% or so webs, and a damage bonus to Hybrids, the Talos will be able to theoretically pin down and destroy it's targets, but I wonder how much of a difference this will actually be?

Tracking for blasters needs to be looked at as well, but this is a good start. 90% webs will make a huge difference, but there is a lot depending on other things for this ship. Agility and top speed will be key, ie will it be able to burst to top speed to hunt down other kiting ships like (presumably at least) the Tornado and Oracle, or at the very least the nanoCane, or NanoTempest? If it can, then it will indeed be a huge leap forward in blaster ships. If not it will fall into the category of all current blaster ships, you either land in range and have a chance, or you don't and are ineffective until you can close range.

8 high slots with 8 turret slots
4 Mid slots
5 low slots
3 rigs (medium size)
17 total slots (h+m+l)
sig radius is 200m, and sports a 25m3 drone bay/bandwidth, the only one that does, fitting that it is a Gallente ship. In addition it's agility is 0.56, and max speed is 210 m/s, making it the second fastest, only behind the Tornado.

Low HP across the board, for instance the Talos here has the following HP base;
Shield : 2111.0
Armor : 2272.0
Hull : 2597.0

In comparison the Deimos sits at
Shield : 1160.0
Armor : 2040.0
Hull : 2531.0

This brings me up to the (overly) anticipated Tornado. Winner of the design contest (though there are rumblings that the other ships in this class will be player designed as well). It will finally see the light of, well I was going to say day, but let's just say Eve. I'm initially a little worried about this ship, the Minmatar do specialize in kiting, range control and hit and run, and this looks like another ship to put in the mold of the nanoCane, Vagabond et al. So the reason why I am worried is that it looks like the Tornado will sit in the same role as the nano Tempest. The Tempest will still have the heavy Neut's and or utility high slots and probably a much more favorable slot layout, but that the Tornado sits in the same role shows a real lack of creativity on the side of CCP. I would have liked to see something more versatile, without a range bonus of any kind, but possibly another arty platform. With the falloff bonus the Tornado is going to be another premier falloff fighter with auto-cannons, a stat that doesn't merge well with arties.

This ship really begs the question, "Will it be able to fit a full rack of 800mm?" To answer that I look at the bonuses it sports and can firmly conclude that no, it will not be able to mount 8 800mm guns(but I might be incorrect). Between 5-6 guns yes, but 8, I think that would be largely overpowered, and more than slightly the favorite of the new BC's. Keep in mind the Hurricane, when designed and for a long time on Sisi started off with 7 turret slots and then was reduced to 6 before release to Tranquility. I think something similar will happen here, and the Tornado will get more utility slots and less than 8 guns.

8 High slots with 8 Turret hardpoints
5 mid slots
4 low slots
3 rig slots (medium rigs)
17 Total slots (h+m+l)
Sig radius of 170m, and no drones. Agility is the worst of all ships at 0.54, but top speed is the best at 225 m/s.

I look forward to all those stathead people out there to tell me if it is possible to rack any of these up with a full set of the biggest guns but I will assume at this point that it is. Going to be an interesting balance game with these things.

CONCLUSIONS

I think that a line in the sand (since CCP isn't willing to draw one for us) is needed for these new ships. They are more of a conventional "BC" than the previous sets of tier 1-2 BC's. Realistically current BC's should be re-named and re-skilled to heavy-cruisers (ships with heavier armor but cruiser class armament) and this new class should retain the name BC (ships with battleship weaponry but lighter than average armor in comparison to a BS). Then a new BC class of ship skill could be introduced into the game instead of consistently mixing and muddying the BC class with what are essentially going to be two completely different types of ship.

To really make a good call on the usefulness of these new ships, it will be important to look at these bonuses, agility, and slot layout. As will their supposed light to non-existant tanks, and exactly what that means. Especially in this era of logistics, tank and spank. Time will tell! (or rather has told)

NEW CONCLUSIONS

Slot layouts minus the Caldari one look pretty even, I am not sure why the Caldari gets an extra slot but hopefully that will get taken care of in balancing. The lack of drones and across the board low hp seems to suggest that these will be very glass cannon like. I wish I had the time to poll more numbers in there and put them up against ships like the Cane or Harbi but I just don't have the time to do it right now.

I think the better idea is to scale back on the number of weapons they can fit and then only give them 5-6 high slots with the same numbers of mids and lows, reducing slot layouts from 17 to 14/15. Right now these things look very strong, and possibly will take the place of most tier 1 BS in terms of gank power, but of course not tanking power. Though with these slot layouts they will not be far behind (keeping in mind that the Drake is also 8/6/4.

Rise of Rebel, Part 4, Subjugation

If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong.
- Abraham Lincoln

It had been impossible to adjust, being looked at like meat, like a dumb, obedient dog. Crammed in the tight quarters with the rest of the chained circles of slaves. Weeks and then months ground by, each second worse than the last. To some extent I felt bad for my behavior then, but I never knew what it would lead to. I resisted the guards, preventing our purchase because of my struggles. Growled at the interested buyers, scared them away. Slaves who came in after us were bought before us, Ammarian Holders and other "decent" slavers (according to Bulkar at least) left us alone like we carried a plague. Most didn't have to come close when inspecting the slave groups to know I was the problem, the guards let them know, and started showing us off to the worst of an already bad lot.

Rozor was the first to snap. I let his fists rain on me, wishing, hoping he would hit something vital that the guards missed, and put me out of this life. Without a family, without my family, I was nothing. Worth nothing, beaten, shunned, I sat outside the circle, but still chained to it. I slipped further and further into a depression unlike any I had faced. There would not be such an easy escape from this life.

Rozors beating did what the guard hadn't. Buyers kept coming through, and at some point I was too weak, too tired to make a stand anymore, to care anymore. We were purchased by some Angel Cartel toughs, the fact that we were simple labor seemed to meet their requirements, that we were all so beaten down, I'm sure that didn't hurt. By then I had lost weight and any muscle I had. They shocked, beat and collared us with electric collars for control on the journey through the smuggler gates of eve. The slight lurch in my stomach at each jump was the only thing that let me count the jumps, 33, to our destination. If that was in a straight line, or just a route to avoid customs....

The ship we were in rumbled into a rough dock and we were shuffled off the ship like so much cattle. Pushed and prodded still, we made our way to the small casino in the middle of the outpost. As the toughs took their payments for delivery to the casino's tables, we were taken by a new set of grim and humorless overlords, assigned menial jobs as if we were not there, in area's we had no idea how to get to. Then taken and beaten until we "learned some respect for our new masters." 


There was no escape, the outpost was isolated in dead space, that forbidden zone between civilization and the dark of space that somehow managed to be neither. It around then that with a final sickening hurt I knewI had been broken, and I worked as if my life depended on it, the deep dark depression now turning into something darker, something that made me want to excel at what they asked me to do, as if that would convince them to save me. I hated myself for it, but couldn't help it, I lived, I rejoined my brother slaves as another to their ranks. It was around then that a new leader of the facility, Thomas, showed up. He must have been the son, or cousin, of someone powerful in the Cartel. Power radiated off him like so much heat and the deference the guards gave him stunk of connections.

He took joy in "training the slaves personally." There was nothing any of us could do, right or wrong, to be spared. During the day we worked like janitors, cleaning up the aftermaths of parties, unloading stores from ships and slaughters when fights broke out. 


Uldrik had been the first to get a taste of the pain doled out by Thomas like candy. Our group was one of few on the casino, all broken men, scared of the fist, of the glance of the guards, or the bite of their discipline. It wasn't enough control for Thomas, he desired more. His men came to the small quarters the five of us shared, pressing the rag that passed as our door to the side for Thomas. He stepped in and looked us over, thumbing a single six sided die between his palm and thumb. The game, as it were, was explained to us, slowly, deliberately. He would roll a single six sided die. If he rolled a six he said, "Then I'll move on, all nice-like." At first you start out hoping for a six. This time I was a five, he rolled a two.

Uldrik was pulled from the room, wet smacks and thuds the only sounds we could hear. I cried, wishing it was me instead, that his pain was my fault, if only I had gotten us sold sooner...

Uldrik was deposited back in the room, bleeding from the eyes and ears, we did our best to cover for him, but he was never quite the same. He lost hearing in his right ear, his right eye kept a deep red hue. It was then that we started talking of escape, of some kind of life where Thomas, where these Angel thugs wouldn't own us anymore. Dreams of lost freedom. Foolish dreams.

Desperate hopes for men trapped deep inside dead space, in some system they didn't even know the name of. Some claim planning escape is almost as important as completing it, but planning for escape, for freedom, is false hope if there is no real chance of it. Bulkar had been the hardest to convince of the need to plan, but then of course we weren't with his precious god-fearing Amarr, who would "never let this kind of treatment of slaves stand." We were with the heartless Angles, we thanked their lack of toxins to control us. Physically, psychologically, it didn't matter.

Thomas had been initially sated by the damage he caused on the slaves. He still trained the guards how to "handle" us better. Their beatings were brutal, more so than before, but at least Thomas left us alone.

We didn't expect it to last; it didn't last. 

He came back, with the same die, only changing our numbers, he had a knack of finding the weakest of us each time. Bulkar came back with ragged, lazy knife cuts across his chest, mumbling incoherently to himself, it took weeks before he made sense or even spoke to the rest of us again. Rozor was next, his pinky fingers and small toes broken and splinted and then re-broken. The pain was to remind him of the grace that Thomas left him alive each day. It was weeks before he was allowed to get the nanobot medical injections to help heal his toes, his pinkies still turned at crooked angles to the rest of his hand. Rozor remained defeated, but still somehow defiant through all of it, drawing from some central core strength I wish I had. Somewhere along the line I stopped wishing for a six, and just wished for anything but my number.

My turn was next. Thomas strode in, and told me I was number four. Blind, callous hope spread through my body, four had never showed up on the die before, I was hoping to be spared. Then die stubbornly rolled to a stop on four, laying between us, slaves and master. Thomas looked unsurprised and his guards took me into the hall. I should have resisted, should have fought, but I walked meekly along with them.


He stood there, staring at me for a long time, and did nothing. I, in turn, stared at the ground, feeling his eyes on my head. His guards pushed me to the ground and Thomas stood over me, as if gloating, looking down at me as I knelt. I felt something deep inside of me stir, but I wasn't sure what, it was deeper than the fear, the depression, even hate, the sensation seemed somehow familiar, I knew it, but couldn't remember the name of the feeling. It rose as the moments crept by, I suddenly knew that it was hope, hope that this was all he needed from me, that maybe the others had been defiant, deserving in their beatings, that I was safe. I clung to it as the last emotion I had. 

Then blows came. Only after the hope was pounding in my chest. His sharp, hard kicks and knee's to my chest, compressed the air out of me explosively, and he never stopped for a instant, letting me feel each blow and creak as my chest took each blow. I kept my eyes closed, unable to take a breath, taking kick after kick, each one twisting that hope inside of me, driving it into my heart more effectively than any toxin could, cutting me open far more effectively than any knife. I started hoping that each blow would be the last, that I would live and serve just to avoid one more kick, one more knee...

When he was done, when we were done, I would have thanked him for stopping, for each breath, if I could have spoken. I had tears running down my cheeks, I remembering wanting to thank him for stopping, as if he couldn't stop before then, as if he did me a favor for beating the hope out of me at all. I spat out mouthfuls of blood from the gouges my teeth had taken out of my cheeks, but the tears were of happiness, I had deserved it, he was right to punish me. He had taken that brief hope and turned it into a twisted kind of fear, obedience. I'm not sure what my injuries were, I coughed up blood for weeks, my chest ached for months more.

Thomas never returned for Kolf, he didn't need to. Broken in spirt now, our quaint little escape plans were just the feeble mess that hoped for a empty container and deep dark space.

The exact spot we found ourselves now.

There's a Stabber in my nanoRupture

NanoRupture vs Stabber

or

"Why you shouldn't fly the stabber."

It's pretty simple really; I don't even have to dig all that hard to start showing just how much better the Rupture is (in every way) than the stabber. Let's just start with a slot layout comparison, now the stabber here is a tier 2 cruiser while the Rupture is a tier 3, so we already know that the Rupture is going to have more slots to show for that, as well as other better stats to back that up

Stabber - 6 high, 3 mid, 3 low, 5 m3 drone bandwidth and bay, 3 rig slots.

Rupture - 6 high, 3 mid, 5 low, 25 m3 drone bandwidth and bay, 3 rig slots.

In addition to that the Rupture has better base hp across the board! Already that should be enough to tell you that short of the price tag difference, there is really no reason to buy a stabber let alone fly in one. Okay I suppose that some people will say "what about the speed man, the stabber is soooo much faster."

Well yes, I suppose you are right, but let's look at two test fits, without rigs. Nano Rupture (t2 guns) vs the Nano Stabber (also with t2 guns).

[Stabber, Standard]
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Energy Neutralizer II


Warrior II x1

vs

[Rupture, nanorupture norigs]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Small Energy Neutralizer II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M


Hornet EC-300 x5
Hornet EC-300 x1

Now while the Nanostabber holds the advantage in speed (still) the Nano Rupture wins in every other way, more EHP, much better DPS, better engagement envelope, as it can hit out to about 32KM (opt + falloff), better gun tracking, ability to use faction ammo out to the ranges the stabber will likely be fighting at, further multiplying it's DPS. Even as heavy tackle the Rupture is a bit better, overheating close to the base speed of the stabber under MWD.

Then you throw in being able to use 5x drones vs the 1 drone from the Stabber, and the utility of neut's to immobilize light, fast tackle getting close to you?

I've heard that people fly the Stabber to "get ready" for a ship like the Vagabond. Realistically the Nano Rupture, especially with rigs, is a much better option to train with. The hull feels heavier than the Vaga or even the Stabber, but the guns hit much more realistically towards what you get out of a Vaga vs similar from the stabber, and the slot loadout is much closer to the Vagabond on the Rupture than the Stabber.

The always flawed approach is to look at a NanoStabber vs a NanoRupture in a 1v1 engagement, so let's save that for last and instead look at application vs targets. The Rupture's better engagement range, and still intact ability to stand off (kite) targets forges it's very true reputation for being a great solo boat, able to up-engage and then disengage if things are going badly. The stabber has much lower DPS, without downgrading the guns (lowering it's DPS further) there is no room to fit anything but small neuts, rockets, or assault missile launchers. None are very good options. (In be4 defenders)

Now I was using all level 5 skills to look at this, so the numbers in use may vary a bit, but what the Rupture loses in speed, it makes up for in range, DPS, survivability and utility.

Taken from the only view the stabber gets of the Rupture. Right before it dies.

I'm not all THAT impressed

As most of you know, Yesterday the Eve-world was hit by a bomb shell of Hellmar proportions; the massive, and deserved, letter to the fan base.

Now other than that dev blog already being inaccessible, and the terribly worded unavailable notice, I'm just not all that surprised to see this letter from CCP.

Why? because it comes too close to being just another ploy, and already an effective one. If just by releasing this blog CCP starts to see more people re-sub, or new players come in from the attention it will undoubtedly draw then it was a full on success. CCP's in a unique place here. Theoretically at least, they have the resources to draw from now that they did not have before(this being close to the end of their 18 months, or at least 13-14 months), with the last of the CQ's being completed, even though only one person in a time in there please, they now have some dev cycles they can use to fix parts of the game that need some fixing and have since either their release, or in some cases (hybrids) for the last 2+ years.

Right now is the perfect time for Hellmar to draw people back in with promises to address those things nearest to our hearts, the spaceships. I was expecting this blog for as long as Jester over at Jester's Trek and I guessed it's content with perhaps some more clarity or at least accuracy than he did a few weeks ago looking at problems with the game from my perspective.

The task list looks impressive, but how much of that will actually get done in the next 2 months? or how much will just be heavy-handed, and forced into some kind of change so they can mark the checkbox next to the problem with a big ole check even if their "fix" just breaks 10 more things with eve gameplay.

It's a good start; but one that shouldn't have taken this long to bring into place. I'm reserving judgement on this until I start to see how these changes will happen, and over what time-period. I suggest you do the same. As always, nothing has changed in-game yet, so if you still hate Eve's current problems, you are still going to hate eve's problems because nothing has changed. If you still have fun with Eve then Eve's still fun. Now, as always, all that's left to do is wait to see what CCP does with this letter, and momentum change, will they capitalize and turn the game around, fixing all those things they can in a admittedly short time, or will they devote 1/4 effort to every project and in doing so fail to fix any of them?

Time, not Hellmar, will tell.