Tuesday, October 25, 2011

Early Tier 3 BC status

Now with slot layouts added, speeds and agility numbers, and sig radius.

First leaked by Reddit, apparently from scraping against sisi's DB,

Reddit leaked tier 3 bcs stats

More extensive raw data from Sisi, currently compiling BC stats from it.


I'll copy the important bits into here aka everything that isn't a comment, (from reddit)

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed and 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Energy Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Energy Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Torpedo Velocity, 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity, 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range and 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets 40% reduction in the powergrid need of Siege Missile Launchers 58% reduction in the CPU need of Siege Missile Launchers

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Rate of Fire and 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Projectile Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Projectile Turrets
Let's look at generalizations that can be taken from these numbers.

CCP has wisely decided to use a "role bonus" instead of just providing the masses of PG/CPU needed to fit BS sized weapons. This will prevent the majority of attempts to uber tank these ships and use them for something other than their intended use, or even the idea of 100mn BC's running around. Now usually these role bonus effects get modified by a pilot's ship skill level, so the question remains if someone with BC V will get more out of the "95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Projectile Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Projectile Turrets" bonus.

And now a bit more specifics;

I still hate you Sun.

First up we have the Oracle, the already promising looking Amarr "true" BC. A tracking and optimal range bonus almost screams for use of Mega Pulse/Scorch and some kind of kiting setup, using that extra BC "speed" while your extra tracking on the already HAX tracking of lasers keeping everything hostile around you, dead. As with all these new BC's I am not sure exactly how this will fit into a gang, other than just bringing more BS sized guns to a BC/cruiser fight. In a large way this might be the Amarr answer to the nano Tempest.

Now obviously the energy reduction for these guns is needed given the hull size of BC, but is strangely absent in favor of MOAR RANGE with the optimal bonus. This is going to be interesting because the question stands if the Oracle will need to be injected just to fire it's main guns for any period of time? I guess only time will tell!

Prelim other stats
8 high slots with 8 turret slots (looks like I was wrong about the whole no 8 guns thing!)
3 mid slots
6 low slots
3 rigs (medium rigs)
17 total slots (h+m+l)
180m sig radius, no drones. Agility is a respectable 0.57, top speed of 200 m/s

So with this extra data it looks like I was mostly right, this is the second slowest of the new line of BC's but it is also the second most agile. No Drones, and 8 turrets means a built in vulnerability to light and fast ships (yay!).

Next up we have the Caldari Naga. A lot of people were expecting a cruise missile ship here but instead these early stats show another Caldari Torp boat. BUT WAIT! It actually has !TWO! sets of bonuses. Not only do these stats show a pair of torp bonuses but also a pair of hybrid bonuses. Could it be it will have both?
No, or at least very unlikely. Minmatar being the kings of split weapons and all that, but in addition to that thought, I think the dev's are still trying to figure out if torps or hybrids are the better way to go for this boat. For testing on sisi/their dev servers they have included both sets of bonuses to make a final call while balancing.


With a bonus to both optimal range and tracking speed (both useful for rails and blasters) this would be the little brother (or sister) to the Rohk, and effective both at range and up close, a good step to seeing the Caldari a bit more diversified from the usual missile approach. I would rather see this in-game as a strong ship rather than yet another torp/missile boat introduced to the Caldari line, although I suppose the Ferox already fills the role (poorly) as the Caldari gunboat BC.


So its not a cruise missile naga? I'm surprised, this is a interesting departure from the norm, and could be seen as something of an influence from the Khanid line with a pair of strong bonuses towards the short range missile system instead of the usual long range bias placed on Caldari missile ships. Or if not bias than weapon system range ambivalence. The torp speed bonus gives a range increase to torps but the real important bonus is the second one, a bonus to explosion velocity to torps is huge! It means this ship could actually engage ships other than BS's with it's torps and be able to hit for at least decent damage, similar to a large stealth bomber, though less sneaky! Torps vs other BC, especially bonused like this, makes a whole lot of sense and seems to go hand-in-hand with the class's apparent idea to get tracking bonuses to large guns, enabling them to down-engage a "bit."

8 high slots and 8 missile launcher slots
6 mid slots
4 low slots
3 rigs (medium rigs)
18 total slots (h+m+l)
190m sig radius, no drones. Agility is the highest at 0.58 with the lowest top speed of 195 m/s.

So where do I start here, what did the Caldari guy miss the memo that the max number of slots for these things is 17 (all the others have 17) and toss in an extra slot for fun?! What the hell is up with that. Anyways, I have not posted some of these numbers, but the shield/armor/hull numbers for these ships are LOW, like lower than some cruisers. Very glass-cannon. And this was across the board.

You giant Bronze bastard!
Wow, the Talos. So clearly this ship is going to highlight the hybrid changes, but I have to say that I am a little disappointed that this isn't a drone boat. Okay, don't laugh at me too hard. It would be sweet to have a new BC able to field 5 or even more heavy drones. A-la the Myrm pre-nerf. Hopes aside, indications show that webs will be a part of the changes to fix hybrids and more specifically blasters. With 90% or so webs, and a damage bonus to Hybrids, the Talos will be able to theoretically pin down and destroy it's targets, but I wonder how much of a difference this will actually be?

Tracking for blasters needs to be looked at as well, but this is a good start. 90% webs will make a huge difference, but there is a lot depending on other things for this ship. Agility and top speed will be key, ie will it be able to burst to top speed to hunt down other kiting ships like (presumably at least) the Tornado and Oracle, or at the very least the nanoCane, or NanoTempest? If it can, then it will indeed be a huge leap forward in blaster ships. If not it will fall into the category of all current blaster ships, you either land in range and have a chance, or you don't and are ineffective until you can close range.

8 high slots with 8 turret slots
4 Mid slots
5 low slots
3 rigs (medium size)
17 total slots (h+m+l)
sig radius is 200m, and sports a 25m3 drone bay/bandwidth, the only one that does, fitting that it is a Gallente ship. In addition it's agility is 0.56, and max speed is 210 m/s, making it the second fastest, only behind the Tornado.

Low HP across the board, for instance the Talos here has the following HP base;
Shield : 2111.0
Armor : 2272.0
Hull : 2597.0

In comparison the Deimos sits at
Shield : 1160.0
Armor : 2040.0
Hull : 2531.0

This brings me up to the (overly) anticipated Tornado. Winner of the design contest (though there are rumblings that the other ships in this class will be player designed as well). It will finally see the light of, well I was going to say day, but let's just say Eve. I'm initially a little worried about this ship, the Minmatar do specialize in kiting, range control and hit and run, and this looks like another ship to put in the mold of the nanoCane, Vagabond et al. So the reason why I am worried is that it looks like the Tornado will sit in the same role as the nano Tempest. The Tempest will still have the heavy Neut's and or utility high slots and probably a much more favorable slot layout, but that the Tornado sits in the same role shows a real lack of creativity on the side of CCP. I would have liked to see something more versatile, without a range bonus of any kind, but possibly another arty platform. With the falloff bonus the Tornado is going to be another premier falloff fighter with auto-cannons, a stat that doesn't merge well with arties.

This ship really begs the question, "Will it be able to fit a full rack of 800mm?" To answer that I look at the bonuses it sports and can firmly conclude that no, it will not be able to mount 8 800mm guns(but I might be incorrect). Between 5-6 guns yes, but 8, I think that would be largely overpowered, and more than slightly the favorite of the new BC's. Keep in mind the Hurricane, when designed and for a long time on Sisi started off with 7 turret slots and then was reduced to 6 before release to Tranquility. I think something similar will happen here, and the Tornado will get more utility slots and less than 8 guns.

8 High slots with 8 Turret hardpoints
5 mid slots
4 low slots
3 rig slots (medium rigs)
17 Total slots (h+m+l)
Sig radius of 170m, and no drones. Agility is the worst of all ships at 0.54, but top speed is the best at 225 m/s.

I look forward to all those stathead people out there to tell me if it is possible to rack any of these up with a full set of the biggest guns but I will assume at this point that it is. Going to be an interesting balance game with these things.


I think that a line in the sand (since CCP isn't willing to draw one for us) is needed for these new ships. They are more of a conventional "BC" than the previous sets of tier 1-2 BC's. Realistically current BC's should be re-named and re-skilled to heavy-cruisers (ships with heavier armor but cruiser class armament) and this new class should retain the name BC (ships with battleship weaponry but lighter than average armor in comparison to a BS). Then a new BC class of ship skill could be introduced into the game instead of consistently mixing and muddying the BC class with what are essentially going to be two completely different types of ship.

To really make a good call on the usefulness of these new ships, it will be important to look at these bonuses, agility, and slot layout. As will their supposed light to non-existant tanks, and exactly what that means. Especially in this era of logistics, tank and spank. Time will tell! (or rather has told)


Slot layouts minus the Caldari one look pretty even, I am not sure why the Caldari gets an extra slot but hopefully that will get taken care of in balancing. The lack of drones and across the board low hp seems to suggest that these will be very glass cannon like. I wish I had the time to poll more numbers in there and put them up against ships like the Cane or Harbi but I just don't have the time to do it right now.

I think the better idea is to scale back on the number of weapons they can fit and then only give them 5-6 high slots with the same numbers of mids and lows, reducing slot layouts from 17 to 14/15. Right now these things look very strong, and possibly will take the place of most tier 1 BS in terms of gank power, but of course not tanking power. Though with these slot layouts they will not be far behind (keeping in mind that the Drake is also 8/6/4.


  1. Slot layouts are up in the pastebin http://pastebin.com/0Uj5JPTf

    8/3/6 for the Orcale
    8/5/4 for the Tornado
    8/4/5 for the Talos
    8/6/4 for the Naga.

    8 turret slots for everything. I'll lot some fanatical stathead grind out and figure how likely you are to get 8 guns on these things.

  2. Just saw that as well, added the information to the post while I was at it, thanks for the comment, can't believe about the 8 turret/launcher hardpoints on everything!

  3. With the 8 turrets the Tornado is a Maelstrom Jr. more than a Hurricane 2.0

  4. Hmm, point taken dsj, I was more likening it to a nanoTempest 2.0 with the comparisons that we can make with the guns on both. Tornado loses a lot from the tempest though without the two utility slots built in.

  5. no ability to fit a gang link like other BC ?