Wednesday, March 24, 2010

Eve Blogging Question (EBQ) #1: Infiltration?!

Well since I get limited playing time and thus few stories  to relate here, I am going to ask some questions of myself and if you would like to participate you can as well... all 10 people who read my blog that is!

My first question: define corp "infiltration"  v hacking.


Are there instances where I would infiltrate into another corp in any capacity? if so, what instances?

and Last,

Are there instances in which your main would infiltrate into another corp?  Why?


First let me lay out what I think the definition of infiltration in Eve Corps is.

Corp infiltration can really be broken down into about three MAYBE four separate, but pretty broad types.

  • First being intel gathering, possibly getting an alt into the corp to get a member list, and to provide intel through monitoring of vent channels and or forums to coordinate specific attacks made by your main or whoever hired you to complete the intel gathering.  Requires a minimum of work, just enough to remain low profile.  Usually once the war is over you trash the alt or remove them from the corp without revealing the source of the leak.  I would call this infiltration light since you don't really mislead anyone, or become friends with people to turn around and stab them in the back.

  • Next there is infiltration with the idea of both providing intel for the other side, as well as to hurt the structure of the organization that you are infiltrating by providing disruption.  This is a bit different than just getting into a corp to steal assets and make off with goods and money.  Here you are gathering the intel as in the first type, and attempting to gain access to items stored in corp hangars, POS etc.  You operate to both gain access and  feeding your side the information to operate effectively against the targets.  Here you are actively misleading people, and backstabbing as some call it, or others just call it acting like a SPAI!

  • Third is infiltration for the sake of gaining assets, isk, or something of monetary value.  Here you are gaining the trust of the corporation, making friends and attempting to gain access to corp wallets, POS stuffed with goodies, etc.  There is no real combat imperative that put you against this corp, they just seemed weak and you moved in to try to get some easy money.  Like above you are actively deceiving the other members of the corporation to gain access for the sole purpose of theft.  This is the mode most corp thefts usually take, select a random corp, join, act like a friend, get access to items, take items and profit.

  • The last, and hardly ever seen, would be consensual infiltration.  Where RPers would for the sake of a story allow a known spy into their ranks with the support of the player of the spy to drive a specific plot line or course of action.  Once the story is played out the Spy is outed or killed and the story moves on.

Hacking on the other hand falls into terms that are more legally defined for me, meaning :
  • Hacking - broadly defined as intentionally accesses a account/forum/vent server without authorization or exceeds authorized access.  This would be using a tool or a site venerability to exploit access, guessing passwords or breaking into area's where you should not have access usually utilizing tools found outside of the game of eve.  Things like Meta-gaming to some extent fall under this for me.
  • Hacking is the term I use to describe what people do when they log into a forum and delete it's contents, or hack into a vent server or TS server to shut it down to provide real world based disruption to enemy comms or to grief other players.  This is done outside of the game.

So with my definitions out of the way,  Here is what I think of it all

Infiltration of all kinds is a valid game mechanic in my eyes.  It takes a cold individual to do either of the two middle types of infiltration, something I can't even pull off because at heart I guess I am just too nice of a fellow, and I end up feeling bad about it all in the end.  However infiltration for just intel, I don't feel bad about that part of eve.  In fact I find that a very amusing and important aspect of the game.

Hacking on the other hand, I don't find anything okay with that on any level.  Breaking into a forum, or server of any kind, data or voice just seems outside the scope of the game.  I know some will say "HTFU," but at some point you have to draw your line in the sand and that is where the game ends for you.  On the other hand, if you suddenly get a vent bomb dropped on you from a spy versus from being hacked, that is a little difference, but just as hard to figure out so it may just get all lumped together.

So would I infiltrate a corp using a Alt?  I have and I would, but like I said before, I just never had the heart to steal anything.  Did I transfer intel?  Yes.  How about try to lure people to their deaths?  Of course, but I never took anything and in most cases ended up making a mistake somewhere along the line that left me exposed and ultimately kicked or removed from the corp.  In the right circumstances would I theft?  I think so, but it would have to be for some predefined insult or something that I could place the blame on for my overactive conscious.  Don't ask me why it didn't pipe up when I kill people for no reason in eve.

Would I do the same using my main?  I guess so if the circumstances were correct, like seeking some kind of RP vengeance, or for some kind of repayment of a similar debt.  Honestly it would have to be extreme to happen though, and the level of infiltration would be one of intel and teft/disruption.  Two things prevent me from doing any of that.  One being that I am in Stimulus and apparently we are known far and wide for corp infiltrations, mainly thanks to our unsuccessful attempts and the few successful ones, not to mention a few inaccurate ISD stories.  So anyone seeing that in my corp history would raise the red flag.  Second being that since Logan is my main, I would not want to expose him to that kind of hate.  If he became a truly hunted man after that and it prevented me from playing Eve the way I like, then it would become quite hard to justify remaining in the game.

As a side note, my current poll is due to finish tomorrow sometime so I will put up a new one on the sidebar of my blog about this to see how people feel.  Hopefully I can get more than 3 votes!  I think Mail still needs to vote for Gall so I have one vote for each race.


  1. Darn my internet, ate my post. Also, your poll won't let me vote. Lame.

    Anyhow, I agree primarily with your definitions, though I think if someone infiltrates high enough to have delete access on forums, that constitutes infiltration and sabotage as opposed to hacking.

    I would infiltrate, but only for Intel, I don't have it in me to steal or screw people over to where they're not gonna enjoy the game.

    I would do so on Minuit, but I think by and large I think alts make more sense.

  2. Bah, silly gadget requires a google login to vote on, but then the default one only allows one poll then you have to delete it after your done with it, can't just make a newer poll and archive the old one! I put it back to the default for usability!

    I agree with you on the delete access part of infiltration, but if you get vent access and use the IP to do a DDOS attack vs signing in and playing obnoxious music I think it falls under hacking where the music falls under infiltration.

    I voted that I would do it for iskies and intel but only because I can see how I would do that if in the right circumstances, but I am just too nice otherwise.

    hell I even finished a l4 mission for a guy I killed in lowsec once so he wouldn't have to come back to get killed again. Some ebil pirate I make lol! I think it better reflects my anarchist views I display in game, because you never know what you are going to get!

  3. Too funny and awesome on finishing a guys mission for him. Kudos to you.

    And I concur with your assessment on the hair-splitting of vent infiltrations. ;)

  4. EVIL STUFF! Sending an alt into a corp. for whatever purpose is a valid thing. Heck the ONLY player that has taken one of my ships thus far was a corp mole. At first I was all bent out of shape, but now I think it was plain awesome.

    Perhaps it's time for me to start toying with alts more in game. Break out my evil side and let it loose a little more. I can think of a few applications all ready in my small and limited EVE world.

    Hacking by all standards is against the law. Break the laws in the real world, there is no ratting to raise your status folks.



  5. Well, I tend to be fairly liberal on this issue, much to the consternation of the rest of the alliance. I think infiltration is part of the game and hacking things like access to comms is also a part. To me the line is if you start to try to affect how one physically gets into the game like isp attacks or gaining access to an account, that to me is beyond the line.